Roses News

York to enter Roses 2010 with 12-point deficit

York will be forced to fight back from a 12-point deficit to retain the Carter-James Trophy after negotiations over the cancelled rowing events reached a compromise (Thumbnail credit Photograph by George Lowther)

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The University of York will have to battle back from a 12-point deficit in order to retain the Carter-James trophy in this weekend's Roses tournament.

Following weeks of negotiations over the rowing events, which were cancelled following a clash with the BUCS Regatta, Emily Scott, the York Sport President, has been forced to concede a dozen points under the terms of the Roses Constitution. The penalty is a compromise, because 20 points would have been at stake in total had the event gone ahead.

A clause in the Constitution states that 'there is an expectation of BUCS affiliated teams to compete in Roses' but this has proved impossible for the York Boat Club because, ironically, of BUCS commitments. An alternative date for the event of Saturday 24th April was rejected because it fell outside of York's term dates and a number of crew members would have been missing.

Despite York adhering to an official deadline of April 1st to withdraw from the event, they have been forced to concede the points because of another clause which states that 'no amendments shall be made to the timetable (except for logistical reason, e.g. venue availability) after the second Committee meeting of the Spring term, unless the amendment is unanimously voted for."

With Lancaster naturally keen to gain an early advantage, there would have been little chance of the requisite unanimous verdict even if emergency meetings had been held. The added disadvantage of exam and essay commitments for members of the York Sport committee, meaning they could not attend such meetings, would have further weakened York's hand, so a compromise of 12 points has been reached between the respective student union CEOs.

With four points awarded for first team matches, York need to win just three fixtures to cancel out the deficit.

The Roses 2010 tournament, in Lancaster, gets underway on Thursday with the men's cricket match and continues through until Sunday afternoon. There has been criticism of the event's staging because of clashes with York's exam period, which will leave a number of clubs short of numbers.

A York victory will be their fourth in succession, the first time this has happened in Roses history.

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13 Comments

~J Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

I think that there is only one thing that can be said. Lancaster are well out of line and behaving disgracefully - if we win this year they might as well disband the competition... there isn't exactly much more that they can do to stack the odds apart from docking points due to us being from Yorkshire. BUCS takes priority and not all of the cancelled events (many of which were due to them being unable to field a team) so why this massive bias? Shocking, considering the other problems with their organising..!

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anon Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

who cares the last two years i've competed in roses rowing have got hammered and we have started every roses weekend down on points to lancaster and still won both years. If anything this will just fire up other york teams to go on a thrash the red rose once again.

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n Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

@ ~J

Or, they are just using the rules to their full (admittedly rather annoying) potential. There's always going to be some controversy whatever anyway. Just look at it as an opportunity to mock Lancaster when they loose.

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Lets be honest now... Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

Didn't we timetable it in Lancaster's exam time last year? I mean, we all abuse the system when we can.

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~J Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

We didn't timetable it in their busiest exam week of the year - and we didn't timetable it with a larger number of points on Friday than Sunday. It's a bit silly that York has exams on the Saturday, to be fair, but it apparently can't be helped. BUCS clashes are surely, alongside being physically unable to field a team, a solid reason to cancel a fixture with no penalties... If Chelsea got through to the Champions League final, you wouldn't say "well they're not showing up to play Barnsley so I guess they forfeit the match" - it gets rescheduled. Rowing's problems weren't caused by York and it's overly harsh to penalise us.

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anon Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

again i would like to highlight the point why does it matter rowing lose every year anyway! i've never been to a roses where we haven't been down on the friday its what i've come to expect!

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Mac Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

Actually anon - rowing won last year?

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Anon. Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

So ~J, are you going to be running for York Sport tournament sec to correct this gross injustice? Or hasn't YS committee made it on the list of 5+ positions you will be running for this term?

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York Rowing Men's Captain Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

First of all I want to point out to Anon that you really need to get your facts straight, I was in both Roses senior mens crews who completely decimated Lancaster quite easily. So please do your research before you slander a sports club as we are, in fact, a very successful club.
I think this situtation is ridiculous. I was not aware of these concessions made by Emily until this article came out which is a shame as we could have attempted to do something about it. The fact remains that Lancaster was not so forthcoming with reorganising dates when we proposed them, and their proposals were unfortunately not possible. I for one would have loved to have raced again and attempted to win, its a shame my crew and I can't do so. But I believe that the situation is absurd given that we have abided by what we were told and its only now that Lancaster are trying to get up on points.
Frankly it is a very poor show of sportsmanship and I'm sorry to see it.
I look forward to the prospect of racing them at BUCS and see if we race them. If anything it merely makes me want to row harder to see if we can't wipe the smiles off their face.

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~J Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

If you want me to, Anon., I'll consider it...

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kyle Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

So was a date ever agreed? If no date was ever agreed between the two it seems unfair to take the points. Roses has been competed on this weekend for years before so why the problems this year?

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Sean Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

Why aren't we being given the points for them forfeiting the Cricket 2nds match because they couldn't get a side out? That would be another 2 pts and only fair after the rowing

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Alex Lacy Posted on Sunday 18 Aug 2019

I'm looking forward to the coverage this weekend- do Lancaster have a coverage site up or will York's media be doing the lion's share?

To add a bit more background, it has only been in the last two years that the term dates for York and Lancaster have become incompatible. I believe we have our term dates on a bit of an odd cycle, which means they gradually become more and more out of sync with other Universities before being hauled back into line. In addition, whereas York have all their exams in their first week and then chill out for the rest of term, Lancaster has one week of chilling out and then exams for the rest.

It is unfortunate that when the terms don't align Roses has to be in someone's exam period. No home president will put the tournament in their own exam period, both because of disruption to those sitting exams and the understandable mob of irate sports people. Though I doubt the Lancaster president had a lot of options, I find it difficult to believe that eight or nine weeks of exams could possibly be as intensive as York's one week.

Of course, this doesn't excuse Lancaster's further inconveniencing of York, a move that suggests their AU care more about points than fair competition. The real shame is that rowing couldn't happen this year (watching them win on the Ouse was one of the highlights last year, anon), and that should have been the end of the matter.

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