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BNP win two European seats

The BNP have gained two seats in the European elections, including one in Yorkshire

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The BNP have gained two seats in the European elections, including one in Yorkshire, as Labour's share of the vote was wiped out across the country.

Andrew Brons, a retired university lecturer, won the seat with 10% of the vote in Yorkshire and the Humber, the constituency containing the University of York. The party gathered 120,129 votes, slightly less than they received in 2004. BNP leader Nick Griffin also won a seat in the North West.

Brons acknowledged that his victory would not be "universally popular" while Griffin claimed that the BNP wasn't racist but spoke for "ordinary people".

Prime Minister Gordon Brown's party is on course to finish behind UKIP with less than 20% of the popular vote. Labour's most embarrassing defeat occurred in Wales where they received 12% less of the vote than in 2004.

The Tories should finish with 27% of the vote which is similar to what they received in 2004. The Liberal Democrats are on course to gain 16% of the vote.

Labour came in fifth place behind the Greens in the South-East and the South-West where they gained less than half the amount of votes they had in 2004. This region was the only one not to elect a Labour MEP. UKIP should come second with 13 ME£, one more than in 2004.

UKIP Leader Nigel Farage said that his party's victory sent a clear message to Brown: "If we have beaten him, he has got to go."

The party came fifth in the regional poll which was won by the Conservatives.

The Tories said the BNP victory was a "terribly sad moment" and that mainstream parties would now be required to "rethink" how they countered racist and extremist platforms.

In the 2004 European elections the Conservatives won 26.7% of votes, Labour 22.6%, UKIP 16.1%, the Lib Dems 14.9%, the Greens 6.3% and the BNP 4.9%.

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46 Comments

Chris W Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Good news. This will force people to engage in reasoned argument with them.

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Ben Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Today's grey dawn marked a deeply depressing moment for British politics. In the very same week that we commemorated the sacrifice that British and Allied soldiers made in the defence of our country against the Nazi threat, the fascist BNP take two MEP positions.

Make no mistake, these far right, neo-fascist individuals do not, and cannot, engage in "reasoned argument". They base their policies on lies, racial stereotypes and ignorance; utilising populist scapegoating against immigration to further their appalling ideas on racial segregation, eugenics and holocaust denial.

Apathy is to blame for their rise, particularly here in Yorkshire. Did you vote? Did you place a cross against any other party, regardless of who they were, to help prevent these individuals gaining ground? If the answer is no, then hang your head in shame- the fact that these hateful individuals have gained even a hint of power is down to your laziness.

Fascist views such that the BNP hold have no place in a modern Britain. To fully respect the sacrifices made by our grandparents and great-granparents, we must ensure that these neo-nazi scum never gain the ability to exert the power that they will stop at nothing to achieve.

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anon Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

'hang your head in shame' - Not voting was entirely within my rights, in fact, by not voting i've registered a protest against the general state of British politics and the European elections.

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Jonathan McWilliams Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Last night Daniel Finkelstein made the point that the economic crisis was supposed to represent a chance for the centre-left to reassert itself in the political arena, yet the results across Europe show that people have mainly voted for centre-right parties (and beyond in the case of Yorkshire and the North-West). With the exception of Obama in America, has the left missed an apparent opportunity to offer viable solutions for tackling the economic crisis? The left is struggling to put itself forward in this country, and the Conservatives will comfortably win the next general election in my view.

The BNP results are disappointing but not surprising - if the mainstream parties think that everyone who voted BNP is a racist then I think they are kidding themselves. The BNP campaign - helped by the expenses row and Labour pressing the self-destruct button - has been able to restrain itself and concentrate on populist policies relating to jobs and immigration. Thousands of people seem to have voted for them out of sheer frustration and contempt for the three main parties.

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In agreement with Ben Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I'm in agreement with Ben. The people who could not be bothered to turn up and vote are just as much villains as those who voted for the BNP.

The vote took place two days before the 65th anniversary of D-Day, which served as a reminder of the sacrifices previous generations have made. Whilst the reasons behind those sacrifices may not always have been in the defence of democracy - it was certainly a large factor.

Non-voters, you have shamed the memory of those sacrifices.

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Ben Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

In reply to anon: '... 'hang your head in shame' - Not voting was entirely within my rights, in fact, by not voting i've registered a protest against the general state of British politics and the European elections....'

Indeed, not voting is a personal choice, but what exactly is the 'protest' that you have registered? By not voting you are invisible, you have no voice, no tool with which to articulate your beliefs. Yes, you have utilised an essential tenet of democracy, the freedom to not vote. But essentially you have wasted an opportunity to play a role; not registered any form of protest. By your inaction you are implicitly supporting the BNP candidate as YOUR representative to the European parliament

"anon", it is EXACTLY this sort of behaviour that has fuelled the rise of extremism across Europe. So I stand by my comment- you should hang your head in shame.

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Paul Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

To clarify, Brons was not a University lecturer; you'd be stretched to call Harrogate College a University.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

It was merged into Leeds Met (which is a Uni)

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Alex (voted in Yorkshire...did you?) Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I agree wholeheartedly with the point made above by Jonathan.

The crunch showed up the flaws of traditionally right-wing politics in industry, and the cure pursued so far has been intervention and, going forward, tighter regulation. The results show a pan-European failure of the left to communicate this; Gordon Brown looked like the Chancellor of the World a few weeks ago, but his public image remains that of a surly, dour loser who couldn't quite hack it as PM.

Fringe parties and PR go hand in hand, and all of this outrage at the BNP is silly given that, from what I gather, they've hardly had a massive surge in support - it's just been a percentage point here and there. The more troubling trend (to me, at least) is the general lurch to the right.

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Em Brownbill Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Alex, the surge in support or lack of one isn't the issue - the BNP now have access to a significant amount of funding (albeit a drop in the ocean compared to the big three) which they can use to develop their organisation. With 900,000 people voting for them already, that doesn't bode well for the forthcoming general election.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I don't think people know who they're voting for. There have been a number of comments the York Press website saying that they voted BNP to "deal with the Polish immigrants". Yet BNP policy is that they will still be allowed here for economic reasons (and let's not forget that Poles are white, which may have something to do with it)

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A. Democrat Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I don't think we can blame those who didn't vote. Genuine disillusion with politicians has clearly worsened with the expenses scandal - i'm sure many believed the choice was between nazis, liars, thieves, fraudsters and careerist money-grabbers. People have the right not to vote, and some people do strongly believe that there is nobody to vote for, nobody to represent them.

The reason these two rather shady characters have been elected is because Labour's vote collapsed. If you look at the council-by-council result, I don't think you'll find North Yorkshire or York voting in the fascists in great numbers. It's the traditional labour cities where they have abandoned their supporters in exchange for money, money and more money. This is a damning verdict on Gordon Brown's 'leadership' and the arrogance of the entire 'new' labour movement who have ignored the public for too long.

Looking at a profile at the two BNP men who were elected, we're dealing with some very strange people. Nazi sympathisers, holocaust deniers, convicted criminals. Not the kind of CV you'd expect of a politicians, not least one who has to work with foreign counterparts! It's a shame that the final nail in Labour's coffin may have been hammered in by Nick Griffin. Yet the government must react. Surely Labour must be worried when its supporters would rather vote for a holocaust denier and a former nazi supporter than it's own candidates.

There is a vacuum on the british left - in areas of South Yorkshire, Manchester, The West Midlands, London, the Labour party have totally failed to bring prosperity to the people who need it. They have refused to even talk about council housing, immigration, city regeneration, 'british jobs', redistribution of wealth and other worries for inner-city dwellers. Maybe the BNP will at least finally force Labour to have a conversation with the country.

I got a flyer in town the other week from a man from a group called 'hope not hate' who were united against the BNP. It's easy to see where the hate is in these elections, but a lot harder to spot any signs of hope. Despite his mimicking of Obama, i'd hardly say that hope is embodied by David Cameron.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

As a part-time resident of South Yorkshire I was dismayed to see the results from that area of our county. It was EU Objective 1 funding that paid for the regeneration of South Yorkshire after the closure of the mines.

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Jonathan McWilliams Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Chris; I'm from the North-East and I empathise with your point - the EU has been extremely influential in restoring jobs to areas in parts of Middlesbrough, Sunderland and Newcastle, yet over 52,000 people in the region voted BNP and over 90,000 voted for UKIP. Gordon Brown must rue the day he came out with the phrase "British jobs for British workers" - cans and worms spring to mind.

Someone in my family is being made redundant because the chemical company they work for is unable compete with similar firms in China and Russia. I used to be sceptical about the benefits of the EU, but surely it is unrealistic to think that we can compete with global competitors like these without co-operation Europe?

I was against joining the Euro currency prior to the recession and still am now, but I think the only way Britain can shape EU policy is to stay in it and remain active - not follow the bravado of parties such as the BNP and UKIP.

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Jonathan McWilliams Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

* without co-operation with Europe?

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Tom Langrish Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

A quote from the BBC News article on election winners & losers:

'But dramatic as they were, the BNP results should be analysed carefully.

They actually got fewer votes in the North-West and Yorkshire and the Humber this time than they did in 2004.

The reason the party now has two MEPs is because of the collapse of the Labour vote rather than any huge surge in support for the BNP.'

Real surprise of the night in my book was that UKIP did better than 2004 despite the lack of comparable publicity. Only in the East Midlands (where K-Silk had been based) did we see anything of the collapse that many predicted.

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Nathan Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Saying someone who didn't vote "shamed the memory of those sacrifices" when referring to D-Day deaths is frankly offensive. Not only to myself but to anyone else who didn't vote and who lost family members on the beaches of Normandy. I didn't vote out of choice, I didn't want to, the young men who died in 1944 sacrificed themselves so I may be lucky enough to have the freedom to choose. Please think a little more carefully before posting in future.

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James Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Well well well, having posted on one of the other BNP articles a couple of weeks back, I was shouted down- "there's no place for fascists in York" came the cry. But despite the massive media campaign, the Blue Stage Digital team, and the massive funds that went in to smear a Party that up until now has survived simply on grassroots donations by working class families, the BNP has triumphed.

I will admit myself at times I was doubtful. While I always thought we would get a seat in the North West (incidentally the place where I was proud to register my vote for the BNP) I did not believe it was possible in Yorkshire. However justice has won out, the BNP now have representation and the funding that was denied to them for so long- not because the British public does not agree with the BNP, but because of media scare stories making us out to be no better than the Devil himself.

The floodgates are now open, and an outpouring of truth will commence. Now we have the funding to fight elections properly, rather than being run on a shoestring, we shall finally have the representation we should have always had.

No place for the BNP? On the contrary, dear multiracialists, there will be no place for you in the new Britain. Immigrants, but most importantly, those who support immigrants, whether they came in 1948, or were fresh off the vote from Somalia in 2009, will all be put to justice under the future BNP government in 6 years time, after Cameron has being shown to be a dismal failure.

Of course there will be no question of the so-called "mainstream" Parties doing what the British people want- they have long ago sold out to International Finance. 12 years of Labour has brought this country to its knees. 5 years of Tory rule will finish it off. They will, of course, say BNP votes are just "protest votes" up until the day Nick Griffin sits in 10 Downing Street. They did the same in Austria a few months back, where the nationalists got 29% of the vote- apparently almost 1 in 3 people were just protest voters. The "mainstream" Parties have ears, but they do not hear.

This is a great day in British politics. I personally stayed up until 2am to watch the result coming it, and the outrage of the Marxist scum on the streets of Manchester when the result was announced.

Hail Victory.

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Jason Rose Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I think what that shows, TDL, is that UKIP aren't actually a very good political party or that publicity means anything to them. People vote for UKIP if they don't like the EU and not the other way around - so even though they have been completely ineffective, people still don't like the EU (and also don't like the main parties either) and therefore UKIP still has support.

Plus without people like Kilroy in the party they're seen as less racist than they used to be and also a good alternative to the BNP. I wasn't surprised that UKIP did well at all, to be honest, though I was surprised they won a larger national % vote than Labour.


But what the circumstance (about BNP winning with less votes) showed is exactly that which I tried to tackle, and which many others did too - apathy, a low turnout and a lack of knowledge gave the BNP two seats. We should have, as a nation, put much more effort into persuading people to vote, explaining what they needed to know etc. instead of just saying "the BNP are horrible" because ultimately nobody really bothered with the BNP but less people voted overall.

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Chaz Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Anon, and others that did not vote as a protest. If you really cannot see a party to vote for spoiling your ballot would be a far better way of registering your protest. It would be counted rather then considered voter apathy.

However, it would not of helped stop the BNP get in. With the wealth of minor parties available to vote for in the European elections I cannot see how you could not find any party to vote for. The green party in both cases only needed a few thousand more votes to beat the BNP.

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A person with a life Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

i was too busy to vote. not that arsed though because everyone knows that one vote wouldn't have made a difference.

its probably quite good really cos it means theres less BNP in York as some have had to go and live in europe! I think we can safely call that cashback!

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

There is no place for facists in York.

In York, the BNP polled well below average compared to either the national average, or the Yorkshire average.

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Erik O'Connor (who voted) Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

When will they introduce online voting? There would really be no excuse whatsoever not to vote.

Except if you object to online voting in principle. Or to voting.

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James Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Chris Northwood:

One can easily narrow down the votes to a certain area in order to give a distorted view. For instance, in my house, the BNP vote was exactly 100%. Going by the posters in the window, a good 50% of my street voted BNP. Yet I wouldn't be so arrogant as to declare "No place for multiracialists" because I'd be taking a highly unrepresentive sample.

I can guarantee there will be some street, some district, some pockets of York where the BNP polled above the national average. You can't just point to a low vote in an area and claim that represents a low support value.

The fact that 10% of people in the Yorkshire/Humber area voted BNP is nothing short of spectacular, given the outrageous media lies that we have been subjected too through this election, as well as the expenses scandal pumping up the dead horse UKIP again.

1 in 10 voted BNP. There'll be 6/10 sympathisers though, who hope that Cameron will enact policies to benefit Britain. When he falls flat on his face, the BNP now has the funds to take advantage of this, and secure a future for the White people of these islands.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

> The fact that 10% of people in the Yorkshire/Humber area voted BNP is nothing short of spectacular

Fortunately that's complete crap. 3% voted BNP. The majority didn't vote at all.

What's your reaction to the fact that the amount of people that voted BNP has actually *decreased* this time compared to last time?

And "the City of York" isn't really an unrepresentative sample. It's the entire city, the place where you're coming to live and study next year.

I stand by my saying that the BNP are racists. If they weren't, why do they have policy to allow, for example, Polish immigration (hint, Poles are white).

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James Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Chris Northwood:

The majority didn't vote, but 10% of those who did turn out to vote, voted BNP. That equates to 10% of Yorkshire/Humber people supporting us, for otherwise we would have to conclude that 65% of the British public don't like the policies of any of the Parties, as only 35% bothered to vote nationwide.

My reaction to BNP votes decreasing? It's immaterial. It's about the vote share, not the number of votes. Note that ALL Parties suffered a decrease in numerical votes, simply because turnout was much lower than last year.

Furthermore, how can you say there is hardly any support for the BNP in York, when by your own admission the majority of people didn't vote and hence this was not a true representive sample (not that this bothers me of course- democracy is supposed to be a representation of those who want to vote). Maybe those 65%, had they been forced to vote, would have voted BNP? That 65% is what I meant by "6/10 sympathisers". Those that are let down by the main parties will turn to the BNP after Cameron's failure. Of course, you're never going to convince any non-white to vote BNP (turkeys voting for Christmas), and there's always a few idiots who will champion multiracialism even when the disadvantages are staring them in the face, but such people don't truly matter. What matters is convincing the average white person on the street, and these elections are a step towards that. No longer will the media be able to print lies about us without recourse. No longer will white Britons suffer without anyone to represent them.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

> The majority didn't vote, but 10% of those who did turn out to vote, voted BNP. That equates to 10% of Yorkshire/Humber people supporting us

No, it really doesn't.

> otherwise we would have to conclude that 65% of the British public don't like the policies of any of the Parties

Which is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the expenses scandal has harmed turnout in this election alienating people from *all* political parties.

> What matters is convincing the average white person on the street, and these elections are a step towards that.

Check back later today. I was out and about grabbing random people yesterday and asking them for their thoughts in a video piece that will go online tomorrow.

The average white person on the street condemns the BNP.

> Furthermore, how can you say there is hardly any support for the BNP in York,

Less than 5% of people in York support the BNP enough to actually walk a few hundred metres and do something about it.

> No longer will white Britons suffer without anyone to represent them.

There's nothing British about the BNP.

They don't represent me, and I'm about as white British as they come.

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A. Democrat Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

We can massage the figures if we like - but the reality is stark. The BNP won 2 seats with around 8% of the vote in this region and will gain a great deal of funding because of this.

I'd never heard of Andrew Brons before yesterday. I had no idea he was a young national socialist, or that he stood for the national front, or that he has a conviction. Maybe that's because he's not been interviewed or taken part in debates or spoken at universities. If he'd had 'a platform' we'd realise that perhaps he's not the kind of politician we need.

The 'no platform' lobby must take some of the blame for this. Unite against fascism give the BNP coverage and martyr status, universities and unions who ban the BNP allow them to remain unchallenged by academics, their views never properly or logically discredited.

The only way we have been able to discredit the BNP is with the rather empty cry of 'FASCIST!'. However we can all attack Gordon Brown and David Cameron and Nick Clegg etc... for things they have announced to us in the media. We cannot do this to the BNP because they have been veiled in secrecy by their opponents.

Its time for a rethink. Lets invite the BNP to campus debates and ask them some questions and put them on the spot. Lets have nick griffin on question time and let him debate his silly policies with the rest of them. Lets have a frank and open debate about Britain's role in Europe without just throwing insults around. Lets have a conversation about 'britishness' or immigration where we can hear each side of the story, warts and all. I wonder how the BNP would deal with questions from 3rd or 4th generation black britons in employment with a privately owned house. The usual 'sponger' attacks wouldn't apply, and it'd probably make them very uneasy. I heard griffin on Iain Dale's radio show this weekend and he had to keep backtracking when an asian briton asked him some fairly simple questions. Lets have that debate here.

By hiding the BNP you hide the sinister past of it's candidates, you hide the venom behind the frustration, the hatred behind the 'common sense' and 'political incorrectness'.

And of course we must accept that 2 BNP members do indeed represent us in Europe. We must write to them to keep tabs on their work in the EU, we must keep watching to ensure they turn up, we must put pressure on them to actually work hard and answer questions and deal with citizens' concerns. Being a politician is more than making a few speeches and getting yourself elected. It involves a lot of hard work. I'm not sure the BNP will be up to the job. But i guess only time will tell.

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James Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

>No, it really doesn't.

Of course it does. Those 65% would be disproportionately BNP voters. There's thousands more that vote UKIP that are mostly in line with BNP policies too- as can be seen by the crossover of votes between UKIP and the BNP.

How do I know this? Simple. Compare the BNP results in council by-elections compared with their votes when there's thousands of seats being contested on the same day. You'll find a noticable drop (generally form about 17% to 10%) in the BNP vote. Why is this? Because when people hear from the BNP themselves, they like what they hear, whereas in huge elections the majority of people only get information from the biased media.

>Which is a perfectly reasonable conclusion. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the expenses scandal has harmed turnout in this election alienating people from *all* political parties.

While you can indulge your fantasies all you like, the fact remains that European Election turnout is always lower than General Election turnout, not because people don't support the Parties, but because no one cares about the European Elections.

>Check back later today. I was out and about grabbing random people yesterday and asking them for their thoughts in a video piece that will go online tomorrow.

The average white person on the street condemns the BNP.

That would be because our supporters can be shy. The most accurate polling data is done online by organisations like YouGov. This affords a fair degree of anonyminity- the BNP vote is still underestimated mind you (most YouGov's had us on 4 or 5% when we finished up with 6.6%).

When polling is done in the streets or by the telephone (which is effectively what you're doing going round asking people face to face for their opinions) support generally drops to 1-2%.

>Less than 5% of people in York support the BNP enough to actually walk a few hundred metres and do something about it.

Less than 10% of people nationwide bothered to walk to a polling station to vote Conservative. Guess that means we can write them off for winning the next General Election then!

>There's nothing British about the BNP.

They don't represent me, and I'm about as white British as they come.

The BNP are the only British Party left. A British Party is no longer a British Party if it supports multiracialism.

The BNP might not represent you in your mind (though they certainly do in the Yorkshire area) but then again you're probably one of those idiots who will happily sob about the Chinese cultural invasion of Tibet, but not bat an eye about what is happening over here in Britain.

Thankfully 10% of people in Yorkshire were not so ill informed.

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George Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

James:

First of all, you can rest assured that the average British citizen is intelligent enough to see the BNP's bullshit for what it is. Only a fringe group of desperate idiots such as yourself buy into racism nowadays, so the prospect of a fascist government in the UK is quite frankly ridiculous. The BNP does not have the potential to get the kind of support you are fantasising about so you can just put away your Nick Griffin poster, stop the mental masturbation and have a nice day.

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Chris Northwood Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

> Simple. Compare the BNP results in council by-elections compared with their votes when there's thousands of seats being contested on the same day. You'll find a noticable drop (generally form about 17% to 10%) in the BNP vote.

I just checked a handful of constituencies in Yorkshire that had council elections at the same time as the local elections. They were about the same.

> you're probably one of those idiots who will happily sob about the Chinese cultural invasion of Tibet

You don't know me. You're completely wrong on that matter too.

> A British Party is no longer a British Party if it supports multiracialism.

One of the major reasons Britain is great is because Britain is progressive. We lead the way forward. In technology, in industry, in culture. The BNP do not support this, they want to take Britain back in time. This is why the BNP are not a British is party.

> Thankfully 10% of people in Yorkshire were not so ill informed.

Once again I completely disagree. It's not 10% either, get that through your head. 10% *of people who voted* is not the same as 10% of Yorkshire!

I suspect a lot of the people who voted BNP did not do so because they want Britain to become an Aryan nation, but because they accept the cuddly image the BNP portray (using all those American stock images on their website/leaflets, for example). As A.Democrat suggests above, many were not informed about the true nature of the BNP.

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Jack Sparrow Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

"'hang your head in shame' - Not voting was entirely within my rights, in fact, by not voting i've registered a protest against the general state of British politics and the European elections."

No you haven't. You've just given yourself no reason at all to comment on politics for the next 4 years. There are plenty of independent parties you could have given a vote to, or you could have written "Fuck off" on the ballot paper and at least showed you cared.

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anon Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Of course not voting is a protest, those who collect statistics have turnout numbers don't they.... perhaps I should have voted for the Green's just to make sure they got their deposit back?

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Jack Sparrow Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Sitting on your arse and doing nothing isn't a protest.... spoiling your ballot is a protest.

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Jason Rose Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Oh my goodness, James, why the hell have you come back? If you want to support racism, go somewhere else. You've already had your arse handed to you and I'm in the mood to do it again.


But in answer to your comments, "Note that ALL Parties suffered a decrease in numerical votes, simply because turnout was much lower than last year."

The Greens did not. They went from 1,033,093 to 1,223,303 votes between the 2004 European election and this year's election, nationwide. In Yorkshire itself, the Greens went up from 90,000 to 104,000 where the BNP lost 6,500 voters. From 5.7% to 8.5% of voters. An extra 16% of voters at a time when many other parties dropped - how come the BNP, who are as much a small party as the Greens, didn't fare so well? There were no BNP expenses scandals. Obivously people just don't like you.


"Of course it does. Those 65% would be disproportionately BNP voters. There's thousands more that vote UKIP that are mostly in line with BNP policies too- as can be seen by the crossover of votes between UKIP and the BNP."

Not true at all. If we assume that all racists cared enough to vote BNP, the other 65% would all vote against them. There is no reason, whatsoever, to believe that the vote would change significantly, though. Exit polls are based on a relatively small number of people and yet they're usually pretty accurate.

Last poll by YouGov compared to actual count.. based on 4,000 adults...

Conservatives 26%; actual 28%
Labour 16%; actual 16%
UKIP 18%; actual 17%
Liberal Democrats 15%; actual 14%
Greens 10%; actual 9%
BNP 5%; actual 6%

And that's the difference between 4,000 voters and 15,000,000 voters. The overall result would likely be within the same margin; the BNP would still lose to the Greens, Liberal Democrats, UKIP, Labour and the Conservatives. You won your seat in Yorkshire by 0.5% and you won your seat in the north west by 0.2% - to gain an extra seat you would have had to DOUBLE your voters in either constituency.


"The BNP are the only British Party left. A British Party is no longer a British Party if it supports multiracialism."

Firstly, Nick Griffin said in an interview to Jeremy Paxman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCt5Ce0i-m4) that Polish citizens would be on the British side of the barricades that he wishes to elect - in a style that seems similar to me of the Berlin Wall...

What that means is that you are not opposed to multiculturalism; not opposed to foreign nationals but are opposed to black people and asian people. That is *racist*. You just said that a party isn't British if it supports multiracialism - so you are suggesting that forcibly deporting non-whites is the British thing to do?!

I mean, sure, if you go back 200-600 years we were killing people in Africa, Asia, Spain, USA... we never picked on anyone for their skin colour. We fought against Germany in WWI and WWII.

The biggest atrocities ever include 10+ million being slaughtered by Germans in WWII, 1.5 million Armenians slaughtered by the Turks, 140,000 Bosniaks killed by Serbs (etc.), 1 million Rwandan tutsis by hutus, 15 million Native Americans when Europe took over North America, 5 million Ukraineans killed by Stalin, 3 million in Cambodia by the Khmer Rouge, 2 million Bengalis killed by Pakistan, 300,000 Chinese slaughtered by the Japanese (in the capital alone) after they invaded in 1937.

What my point is, basically, is that in the list above there have been tens of millions killed by Caucasians; millions by the Middle East (including Turkey); millions by Russia; millions by Asians; millions by Africans. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the ways that the people of the world act. And how would you define race anyway? Would Russians count as British but the Spanish not (because Russians have light skin but Spanish are tanned?)


I'm not going to argue with you; Chris can easily hold the fort against you. I will point out, though, since you are looking at coming to York... Racism is not tolerated *in the slightest* and our Student Union President for the next 12 months is black so good luck with trying to get your point across to him.

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George Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Or to anyone else for that matter.

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Ben Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Jason Rose- well done. If that James character thinks he will be able to arrive in York and peddle his naked racism then he has another thing coming.

But unlike those crying "no platform", I agree with an earlier post saying that we should give these ignorant fools the opportunity to stand up and be utterly destroyed by the power of simple, reasoned questioning.

James- you wouldn't stand a chance mate. Go back to the dank cave you seem to have just about managed to crawl from.

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Richard O'Neill Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Well said Jason.

I would just add that those who didn't vote should be entitled to do so, and saying "you just lost your right to have an opinion", "you have shamed the memory of fallen heroes" is just idiocy.

With regards to the BNP, people use the European elections to lodge a protest vote, the general election is where it matters. I doubt they will fare so well.

I could believe that 5-10% of the people in this country hold racist beliefs to one extent or another, which is probably less than most other countries - so we shouldn't pretend the BNP has no support. But I'm not convinced by James' argument that there will be a BNP government in 6 years.

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Sami Rose Sterjon Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Well said Jason and I agree.

I think that those who didn't vote should have a way of showing that they didn't vote deliberately. An ABSTAIN box would be a nice thing to have on the election form and I for one would put a cross in it!

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Oli Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I'd just like to say that all those who whine and complain about the BNP getting two seats and didn't vote should see this as a wake-up call. If more work was done to get people involved in politics it might result in higher turnout and things like this would not happen.

I for one, am glad the BNP have won seats, it might wake up the nation and show people who don't vote what happens. Of course, it doesn't help with the expenses crisis and the global recession.

The government right now is weak, and the situation is very reminiscent of a certain number of elections and advance in German politics in 1933. I just hope that the people and politicians a like come together to try to save the government and the future of the people it governs from extremist groups.

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anon Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Stop peddling hysteria, and interestingly German elections in 1933 saw a turnout of over 80%

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James Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

George:

Keep banging the Labour Party drum, moron. You echo the same fools who said we'd never get a council seat, never get a seat on the GLA, never get an MEP etc etc.

BNP government in 6 years. You heard it here first.

Chris Northwood:

"I just checked a handful of constituencies in Yorkshire that had council elections at the same time as the local elections. They were about the same."

Ah, I miswrote something. I meant local by-elections compared to times when there's thousands of local elections. Believe it or not the BNP doesn't have some scanner that locates high levels of BNP supporters and then we only stand in those seats. Our high by-election results are based on campaigning- showing the people the real BNP, not the media fabricated one. However in time when there's thousands of elections on, there simply aren't the resources to do this. Hence all people hear is the media lies. Clearly there's vast numbers of potential BNP voters in that 65% that didn't vote.

"I suspect a lot of the people who voted BNP did not do so because they want Britain to become an Aryan nation, but because they accept the cuddly image the BNP portray (using all those American stock images on their website/leaflets, for example). As A.Democrat suggests above, many were not informed about the true nature of the BNP"

HAHAHA. Ridiculous! Are you seriously suggesting one BNP leaflet through every door can somehow compare to being attacked by every single newspaper and media outlet in the UK? Take your head out of your backside- those who voted BNP support BNP policies. I guarantee that if the media wasn't biased against us, we'd have a lot more votes too.

You'd have to be living under a rock not to know the "true" nature of the BNP as you call it (the "nature" portrayed by the media that is). I don't know any policy that can be soundly linked to any party more than the BNP and anti-non-white immigration. If you go to 100 people on the street, and ask them to name 1 BNP policy, a good 95%+ will say "anti-immigration" or as some like to call it, "racism". You can't seriously be suggesting that people did not know this when voting for us, can you?

Jason Rose:

"The Greens did not. They went from 1,033,093 to 1,223,303 votes between the 2004 European election and this year's election, nationwide. In Yorkshire itself, the Greens went up from 90,000 to 104,000 where the BNP lost 6,500 voters. From 5.7% to 8.5% of voters. An extra 16% of voters at a time when many other parties dropped - how come the BNP, who are as much a small party as the Greens, didn't fare so well? There were no BNP expenses scandals. Obivously people just don't like you."

Yep, that sure must be it, given we got an MEP in Yorkshire and they didn't. Sounds they they had their arse handed to them fair and square to me.

You keep saying the BNP "lost" 6500 as if support has dropped for them. The fact is that the abscence of Postal ballowing, plus the lack of the Kilroy-Silk affect, means that there was a lower turnout. The BNP suffers from potential supporters not voting like everyone else does. As for people not liking us, we lost 6500 supporters. Your Party, the Labour Party, lost 180,000 voters. Guess no one likes you either (neither your Party nor you, personally, by the sounds of it).

Oh and look! The Conservatives lost 88,000 voters! Support for them must have dropped since 2004 as well despite Labour winning the General Election in 2005 and the Conservatives going to win a landslide victory wheneve the next General Election is announced. The Lib-Dems lost 83,000 voters too! UKIP lost 15,000! Support seems to have dropped for every single Party. It couldn't POSSIBLY because a lower turnout means a lower amount of voters to share between the Parties, could it?

"Not true at all. If we assume that all racists cared enough to vote BNP, the other 65% would all vote against them. There is no reason, whatsoever, to believe that the vote would change significantly, though. Exit polls are based on a relatively small number of people and yet they're usually pretty accurate."

You admit that more people voting wouldn't change the result significantly, yet the whole Hope not Hate campaign was based off the idea that more people voting would result in a reduced vote share for the BNP. You just admitted 10% of people in Yorkshire support the aims of the BNP, as there is "no reason whatsoever to believe that the vote would change significantly" in your own words.

"What that means is that you are not opposed to multiculturalism; not opposed to foreign nationals but are opposed to black people and asian people. That is *racist*. You just said that a party isn't British if it supports multiracialism - so you are suggesting that forcibly deporting non-whites is the British thing to do?!"

Absolutely. Notice I said I was opposed to multiRACIALISM, not multiCULTURALISM.

"And how would you define race anyway? Would Russians count as British but the Spanish not (because Russians have light skin but Spanish are tanned?)"

All those indigenous to Europe. Both the Spanish and the Russians are white, and would therefore be welcome in Britain (within reason, obviously, wouldn't want 50 million setting here, but that's because the infrastructure couldn't support them and we'd have to start building loads of houses in the countryside).

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Jason Rose Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

"Believe it or not the BNP doesn't have some scanner that locates high levels of BNP supporters and then we only stand in those seats"

Well, yes they do... stand in highly racist areas, that is. Nick Griffin's own area is famous for its racism and so are the other key areas that you've been pushing in.


"Guess no one likes you either (neither your Party nor you, personally, by the sounds of it)"

Thanks - personal attacks are rich from people who have never met me. Especially considering that you're following three comments that said "well done Jason, I agree". And no, popularity has indeed dropped for Labour. Not too surprising. The Greens, alternatively, gained 15,000 votes... so they have increased in popularity. Granted they didn't gain enough to beat the BNP but they will get a higher share in the next election, I suspect.


"All those indigenous to Europe."

From Wiki: "He thought "slave races", like the Slavic peoples, to be less worthy to exist...This idea was the given rationalization for the Nazis' later oppression and elimination of Jews, Gypsies, Czechs, Poles..."

Assuming that Jews are Asian; the Roma people (most Gypsies) come from Romania and eastern Europe, the Czechs and Slavs come from the Czech Republic and eastern Europe - Poles and Czechs are really a type of Slavic population but hey-ho, we'll ignore it and say that Poles come from Poland. That's a whopping MOSTLY IN EUROPE.


So your logic is flawed, really; those that created your ideology (National Socialism) saw these races as inferior. I suspect that you are going to argue that you don't see them as inferior but you do see Jews, blacks and asians as inferior? Or what? Try and find some cohesion in your arguments, please.

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George Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

You said you have no problem with "all those indigenous to Europe."

Define 'indigenous'; is in terms of birthplace? Is it in terms of race? If so, within what timeframe?

It appears to me James that you are not aware of basic anthropological history. You just seem to assume that people of different colour somehow sprouted into existence in different continents.

In reality, it is a widely acknowledged scientific fact that our species, homo sapiens, originated in East Africa around 200,000 years ago. In that sense, neither you nor I are 'indigenous to Europe' - unless you are willing to set your own arbitrary criteria as to who is 'indigenous' and who is not.

At the core of your 'argumentation' lies a deep hatred against anyone who does not have the same skin colour with you. I can not know what caused this hate, but I know that your discredited views on eugenics have no place in the 21st century.

Finally, I am not a Labour supporter.

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George Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

I forgot to mention that the Slavs migrated into Europe around 500-800AD. So, do they now qualify as 'indigenous'? If so, is it because of the timeframe or because of their skin colour?

Face it James, no case can be made for racism - no rational argument can support an irrational hate against people who don't look exactly like yourself.

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Ann Mac Posted on Wednesday 24 Apr 2019

Brons, a retired university lecturer??? I think not - please check this as one newspaper said he attended an F.E. college which is probably the truth.

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